Big thanks to my brother Tyler Heasley for this latest fan art! It made me laugh and brought me right back to the 6th Grade and playing The Legend of Zelda for hours on end. I’d love to see more Fogeys in this style!
Brock Heasley, the creative genius behind the immensely popular SuperFogeys webcomic (first appearing in 2006), agreed to sit down and do a web-based “fan-terview” with me. In late spring of 2011, I came across SuperFogeys on a friend’s site.
I had heard of the series back in the height of Myspace.com and had read a strip here and there, but hadn’t taken the time to get really into it – my loss. The crisp art and inventive story-telling keeps the reader at rapt attention. I doubt it will come as a surprise, but, I read the entire series (and the published SuperFogeys Origins) at that point in the span of a day. I could kick myself for not getting on the terrific ride that Brock Heasley pilots sooner. I count myself lucky to have stumbled onto this pleasure that so many others had found before me.
Benjamin Kissell: It’s clear that you draw on the archetypal superhero stories for the writing in SuperFogeys. How much of this is purposeful versus the natural extension of writing a super hero comic?
Brock Heasley: First of all, I don’t know if I’m totally comfortable being called a “genius.” I much prefer the term “uber genius.” Or “Amazing Man of Superior Everything.” Basically, the better you make me sound, the more accurate you will be. Truth in all things.
(Someone hit me with a hammer. Please.)
As to your question, it’s really both. In the beginning, I very much thought about which superhero analogues I wanted to create, even going so far as to crib design elements directly from the comics I love. Latter-day Fogeys characters like Soviet Sam and T-Magus are not so much like that. I mean, you can find the analogues for them, but I didn’t start their creations there. At the end of the day, I’m so well versed in superhero lore and types that it just leaks all over the characters. (That sounds gross.)
BK: With the influence of DC/Marvel/etc super heroes, how much is impacted by the classic storylines of halcyon days (Dark Phoenix Saga, Batman: Knightfall, The Death of Superman) and how much is by the more recent story-arcs and character developments (if any influence at all from the modern)?
BH: I think it’s fair to say that I take ideas most heavily from the comics I read when I first started getting into comics. So we’re talking 1988 – 1996 and any back issues I grabbed during that era as well. There’s one particular Avengers story from the early-mid 1980’s that I’m very specifically drawing upon for SF Chapter 12, “Jackpot!” And I’ve just recently hinted at a “Crisis” that took place in SF Universe, which should raise some the eyebrows of any DC Comics fans out there.
I still read comics today, but I don’t try to keep up on all of the storylines like I used to. That said, I’d love to do the SF version of “House of M” at some point. I love alternate reality stories!
BK: Drawing on the use of archetypes and established characterization, how much of that allows you to use cues – visual and verbal – to allow the readers to imply certain facts (an assumption factor)?
BH: I think it’s extremely helpful anytime you can find a shortcut to communicate something to the reader. I introduce a short guy with sideburns and a cigar in his mouth, and you’re already thinking Wolverine before he even says a word. That’s nice. Allows me to get to the good stuff more quickly. It can also be a real problem. Captain Spectacular is clearly a Superman analogue and it only took four strips for people to start telling me “Cap wouldn’t talk like that.” In my mind, I’m thinking ‘How the crud do you know what Cap would talk like?’ But to most people, in the beginning, Cap was Superman. He’s far from that now so I don’t get many complaints.
BK: In previous story-arcs within the series, you’ve used that assumption-factor to catch the readers off-guard and break their expectations. How much of this is planned?
BH: Well, I think that’s just good storytelling, isn’t it? Set up the reader to expect one thing and then show them something else that makes just as much sense. I try to use the reader’s expectations against them as much as possible. Cap is a great example. He’s not this perfect hero we may have thought he was initially.
That said, I think if you constantly subvert expectations, then that BECOMES the expectation. At some point, you do the expected BECAUSE it’s unexpected. The trick is to know when that point has arrived.
How much of this is planned? A good portion of it. I really think about the story on a mechanical level. Pieces gotta fit!
BK: At times, you’ve come close to breaking the 4th wall – strips like the Myspace.com pages – do you find this helps or hinders your creative voice? Do you find it impacting your story delivery negatively, positively or not at all?
BH: I’m not a huge fan of fourth wall breaking. It’s too easy. I read an interview with “Community” creator Dan Harmon recently in which he talked about the creation of an episode that mimicked the style of “The Office” and “Parks and Recreation” and shows like that. He said he found it such an easy episode to write and it ended up being incredibly funny. There’s something to be said for having more tools in your box. But I’m a little like Dan Harmon. I find it more interesting to see what you can do when you leave some tools in the box.
The rare times when I’ve approached that fourth wall, it’s been helpful. The MySpace pages allowed me to get a lot of stuff about the characters out there. But, I don’t think they were a huge hit with readers. I always skip them when I go through Chapter 3. I’ve even moved most of them to the Extras/Guest Strips archive on this new site.
In the back of my mind I have this idea for a character whose power is to break the fourth wall. How that would work and what advantages that would bring to that character I’ll reserve for myself, but if I ever did it it would be a huge move into a direction I’ve largely avoided.
BK: With the SuperFogeys: Origins stories, since you plotted them and wrote them but did not do the art, did you intend for them to be a proving ground for a possible future SF-artist replacement? How did the SuperFogeys: Origins begin?
BH: No, SFO was never intended as a proving ground. I never really imagined someone else would draw SF proper until it happened. The Origins started when I decided I wanted to write a book and I needed time to do it. Back then, I was doing two strips a week and it was taking everything I had to do that much. Mike DeVito at Th3rd World suggested I do another SuperFogeys comic to run once a week to replace the missing update and have it drawn by someone else. The first idea was to do a more traditional super hero strip focused on the modern day Society of Heroes. I couldn’t get my head around that and went with SF: Origins instead. I can hardly believe the series is still going strong. Which reminds me—I need to get crackin’ on more scripts!
BK: With the character similarities between Captain Spectacular and Superman, his inactivity/passivity during the Tangerine/Dr. Rocket (Herman)/SpyGal situation garnered a LOT of fan reactions – good and bad. Did you have any idea this was going to happen?
BH: I truly did not anticipate how hard a time people would give Cap. Especially after his inaction during Chapter 5, “The Redemption of Dr. Rocket.” People are really, really hard on the guy. I even did some adjusting of the storyline to fit the new way Cap was perceived after that. Just a tweak to acknowledge he’s a bit of a screw-up.
BK: Who’s the character you see the MOST like their comic book predecessor? The least?
BH: Tangerine is probably the most like his predecessor, Wolverine. Or at least he used to be. He’s been going through a lot of changes lately. Captain Spectacular is probably the least like his predecessor. Maybe Swifty. I always thought there was a twinge of sadness and anger to the very idea of the character of the Flash. I mean, the dude has got to be so impatient and frustrated with how slow everyone else is. DC almost never capitalizes on that. Marvel does, with their Flash analogue Quicksilver.
BK: Which comic book characters would you want most to SuperFogey-ize and introduce into the SFUniverse?
BH: Everyone asks for Batman. And Spider-Man. I’d love to do both. A character by the name of “Arachno” has been mentioned. And featured in the background. Maybe he’ll speak one day. But I kind of like the idea of taking more obscure characters and bringing them to SF. That’s how Spy Gal and Death, M.D. came to be (based on Black Widow and Deadman, respectively).
BK: While reading the SF:O tales, I noted that Swifty had a drastic costume change, mid-story, due to allegations of too-much similarity to another fast-hero, I assume? Have you worried that other creator-owned characters may take umbrage or exception?
The Way Captain Spectacular Used to Look
BH: This is a good time to mention that I’ve updated the archive on this new site and all of Swifty’s appearances that involve his full costume have been changed to the new version. But you’re right—he looked way too much like the Flash at one point. Even worse was Captain Spectacular. He actually used to wear red and blue. No collar. Yellow insignia. Crazy, right? About halfway through Chapter 2, I changed it to the familiar yellow and blue number he’s in now. Much better fit, I think. I’m not too worried about any of the other characters. They’re much less obviously total rip-offs, visually.
BK: Going with the classic Comic Book/Strip rules, how fast and loose do you play with time-liness? You’ve established that the SuperFogeys primarily operated in the 50s and 60s, and that they’re in their 70s and 80s now (well, Captain Spectacular and Dr Rocket are a fair bit older), how does this impact the 2-strip a week format? Does it? In essence, how much time has passed between Strip 01 and today’s strips?
BH: The way I have it in my head is that everything you’ve seen in the Valhalla storyline takes place in 2007. There’s really no other way to do it because the two-strip-a-week format just can’t be in real time and I’ve got characters who are pretty near death as it is. As for how much time has actually passed since Strip 1 and now…I’d say maybe about 3-6 months. Not real long.
BK: How has doing The SuperFogeys impacted your life? Many will say life imitates art and that art influences life; how has writing, drawing and plotting this humongous story been influenced by your own life? I know certain characters are drawn directly from your day-to-day (Cami and Dictator Tot), are there other facets? More cool behind-the-story secrets we Fans of The SuperFogeys we can learn?
BH: Certainly there are other characters that are based on real people I know. Captain Spectacular’s laziness and general attitude comes from a member of my extended family (who I quite like and will not name). Spy Gal has quite a bit of my wife in her. Mega Matt is based on a friend of Mike DeVito, and one of my friends as well.
Probably the biggest story secret is that the entire point of the SuperFogeys—the big theme I’ve been dealing with and that won’t really come out until I reach the end of the current storylines—is based on a closely held personally belief I have about what a life well lived truly is. It’s an idea I get from my religion, but it’s not strictly a religious idea. I’m being vague on purpose. Don’t want to spoil anything.
Thanks to Benjamin for a great interview! I had fun. Love to do it again sometime.
Before there was The SuperFogeys, there was the blog “From Behind the Light.” It was mostly personal stories from my own life with a sprinkling of other nonsense like short fiction stories and a some early comics. Now that we’re on this new site, I can do more blogging of that type and bring back some of the old stuff that most of you have never seen. Here’s one:
Have you ever gone a date with someone that just embarrassed you to no end and about whom you felt the need to apologize for to every person you came in contact with? I haven’t. Instead, women tend to go on those types of dates with ME. You needn’t fear, however. Now that I’m married there is only one woman upon whom I inflict my embarrassment mojo. We have a love/tolerate relationship.
There is a quaint little Mexican Restaurant in the Old Town section of the city where I live called ‘La Posada.’ It’s so quaint that you would never take this particular eatery for a restaurant. It’s a converted, small house where the people are swell and the food is good. You ever eat in a place like this? I feel like an intruder every time I go in. For all I know, the chef just rolled out of bed before cooking my enchiladas and my order acts as his wake up call. “Curse you, Heasley… curse you,” I can hear him saying.
One night about a year and a half ago we decided to treat ourselves to some ‘La Posada’ after a particularly stressful week. Money was tight and we were looking at having our second child early the next year and all I could think about was money and how much of it everyone else had and we didn’t. Now, my wife is a very reasonable individual. She’ll get worked up over things, but she always calms down afterwards. She knows better than to get me worked up because there are always physical manifestations and whatever it is takes over my brain. No one knows this better than our waitress that night at ‘La Posada.’
Nicest Waitress in the World: Can I take your order?
Me: Yeah, um…
Wife: I’ll have the Enchiladas and Tacos combo.
NWITW: Would you like some tortillas with that?
Wife: Yes, please.
Me: Those are free, right?
NWITW: Yes, they are.
Me: Okay. Great. Um…I’ll have the same but instead of the regular tacos can I get the fish tacos?
NWITW: Sure thing. That’ll be a dollar more, is that okay?
Me: Really? Oh, never mind then. I’ll just take the regular tacos.
NWITW: Ok. Would you like anything to drink with that?
Wife (kicking me under the table): Just water’s fine.
NWITW: Ok. Would you like lemon with that?
Me: Does that cost extra?
‘Does that cost extra?’ Now, there’s a phrase that will haunt me for the rest of my life. If we’re at a party and my wife needs a funny story, there’s always ‘Does that cost extra?’ Yes, it’s true, I actually wanted to know if the little lemon slices they put on the rim of our glasses of water cost money.
The Nicest Waitress in the World leaves and you can bet I was in for it.
Wife: Omigosh. You sound just like Logan.
This is not a compliment. Now, Logan is my younger brother. You do not want to go to a restaurant with Logan. He is notorious for giving waiters and waitresses a hard time. (Hopefully, he doesn’t also read this blog. Love ya, bro!) Sample of Logan:
Logan: Hey, you better keep this pitcher of water full. Your tip depends on it; you understand what I’m saying?
We eat and my wife’s conversation seems distracted. I think she’s secretly praying every time our waitress comes around that I won’t open my mouth. The food is excellent, as always, and the check arrives. We had set aside some cash for the evening and we had just enough to cover it. Only just. There was no money for the tip.
What was I supposed to do? Break out my check card for a $3 tip? That seemed ridiculous and even more embarrassing. We left the table and made our way to the register. Like I said, it was a small place. Who do you think our cashier was? That’s right, the Nicest Waitress in the World. I paid the cost of the meal with great shame and left.
NWITW: Have a good night.
I once read that Quentin Tarantino doesn’t believe in tipping. No, not cows. Or goats for that matter. He doesn’t believe in leaving tip at a restaurant after a meal. From what I understand he expounds on this philosophy through a character in a bloody, profane movie he did (that I have not seen) called ‘Reservoir Dogs.’ His reasoning, I believe, is this: I’m paying for the meal and you’re providing a service for which you are also paid therefore I do not need to tip you for simply doing your job. On a certain level, this makes sense. On another level, Quentin Tarantino is a big, fat jerk. And so was I.
My wife left the restaurant as soon as we got up from the table. No way she was gonna stick around and watch me pay for the meal and give some sort of implied approval of my non-tipping ways. I made my way out to the car and got in.
Wife: What did you do about the tip?
Me: I didn’t pay it.
Wife: You really didn’t pay it!?
Me: No. I need to go back. I need to pay it.
Wife: We don’t have any money.
Me: We need to get money. We have to find an ATM.
Wife. You have got to be kidding me. I’m not going back in there.
I drove around Old Town for about 15 minutes looking for an ATM. When I finally found one, I bit the bullet and took out the minimum from our savings–$20. Now, I knew I wasn’t going to tip $20, even if she was The Nicest Waitress in the World. I just couldn’t afford it. I also only had a Twenty Dollar Bill. We found a little cafe and I bought a small milk. By now 30 minutes had passed since we left the restaurant.
Now, I did not want to go back. I already knew at this point that this would rank as one of the top five embarrassments of my life, but what was I going to do? If anyone ever deserved to be tipped, it was NWITW. I entered the door and who do you think was still at the cash register?
Me: Hi. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to leave without giving a tip. I just didn’t have enough money on me. Here you go.Thanks a lot for tonight. The food was really good.
I handed her $5.
NWITW: Thank you. Have a good night.
For about a split second we just kind of looked at each other. There was this look of terrible gratitude in her face and her whole frame seemed to relax. I can only imagine the things she said about me to her coworkers. And I felt good, too. It was obvious she’d had a rough day and I think she was sure she would never see me again. She was probably hoping she wouldn’t. But not at that moment.
Of course, I ruined the moment by tripping over the threshold as I backed out of the restaurant to back to the car.
Hey, everybody. Big changes today, huh? You have no idea. This has been in the works for a long, long time. Let’s not talk about how long. Instead, let’s enjoy the new. I’d encourage everyone to have a poke around. You’ll find some neat surprises as you do and you’ll find that things are a little bit different than what you’re used to. I expect some grumbles, but with time I think you’ll come to love this new site and this new way of experiencing the SuperFogeys world.
Some highlights:
• BLOG – This is the biggest one for me. Because the new site is built on the more traditional Comicpress system, I can now write blogs that are separate from the strips. You’re reading one right now! My goal is to have something new for you to read/look at each and every day–regardless of whether or not a strip posts that day. The blog will always be accessible from the home page, and will run here, below the strip.
• REVAMPED NAVIGATION – Because Comicpress is so very different from the old system, we had to do a bit of jerry-rigging to accomodate both SuperFogeys and SuperFogeys Origins. You’ll notice six navigation buttons under the strips and between them all you should have no trouble getting to where you want to go. Of course, the quickest way to get somewhere is this:
• REVAMPED ARCHIVES – By using the pull-down to the right of the navigation buttons you can access anything in the archives by section. Clicking on any one section will bring to a visual representation of that section and from there you can click on the exact strip or page you’re looking for. It really takes the guesswork out of jumping around the archive and I think you’re really gonna like it.
• REEDITED ARCHIVES – I’ve gone back through each and every strip and reedited it and made minor adjustments to the Valhalla chapters–particularly the early ones. This mostly involved making adjustments to speech balloons to bring more visual unity to the archive. Reading through the whole story will be a slightly (slightly!) different experience than it was before.
• BIGGER STRIPS – Speaking of adjustments to the strips, you’ll also notice they look a bit bigger. On the old site, I could only run them 800 pixels wide. The strips are now 900 pixels wide, from the first to the last.
• COMMENTS – Comments are done a bit more traditionally now. While you do have to click to see and make comments, you can now comment on the strip and blog content separately. At this time, the comments from the old site have not been brought over to the new one, but I hope to have that rectified one day. It’s a programming issue and getting the right person to work on it has been a bit of a challenge. Rest assured, it is one of my number one goals to get those ported over somehow.
• FAN ART – I’ve accumulated a lot of fan art over the years, and, up until now, I’ve had no place to put it. Well, that’s all changed and this site has a place for fan art. At this time, the fan art page will only show you the title of subject of the fan art–you have to click on it to see it–but that’s another of those programming issues we hope to work out in time. For now, I’ll be posting fan art in the blog section and it will immediately go into the archive on the Fan Art page when I do. I’ll be cycling through all the old fan art I have with time, but any new fan art that’s sent along to me will immediately get bumped to the front of the line.
Well, I think that’s enough for now. There’s lots more to discover and I’m sure you’ll find it on your own. Big thanks to Michael DeVito, Jon Conkling and everyone else who have worked so hard for so long to make this possible. Please do chime in and let us all know what you think!
As you all know, we’re just a few weeks away from the big SuperFogeys 5th Anniversary celebration. Many of you are working hard on your artistic recaps of the chapters. Others are crafting short essays to look back on five years of SF. Those who do are eligible for a prize package which includes:
1. A cameo appearance in an upcoming SuperFogeys strip.
2. An original “Lunchtime Sketch” by Marc Lapierre–you choose the subject!
3. The original art of the SuperFogeys 5th Anniversary print… which can now be seen right here:
Those of you that would still like to participate, check out this post right here. Chapter Recaps are all claimed, but I’ll still accept short essays and even fan art. Full details and deadline at the link!
