604 – Vs.

Discussion (30) ¬

  1. Professor Harmless
    Professor Harmless

    Vision and the Original Human Torch standing side by side was explained rather thoroughly in the Maxi Series “Avengers Forever”. When in doubt, blame it on Immortus.

    Is it just me or does Thrice seem to be loosing his credibility as a threat with each strip? Judging by the interlopers, he now merely seems a “first among equals” in his lodge o’ doom. There are no armies behind him, this isn’t the throne room of a world conqueror. This is one more megalomaniac with some buddies and a crazy plan.

    • gnrrrg

      If we knew more about this universe’s Thrice Evil then maybe “Punish them” would sound like a real threat, otherwise it just sounds a little lame especially when we learn that his team name sounds like an amped up cliche. That may be why his credibility is slipping.

    • devilflamejr

      It might be that this universe’s lodge of Doom is actually losing to the society of heroes and are in hiding, and therefore seek to create a connection between the two universes because the bad guys are faring better in the original one? If Dr. Rocket in this universe is with the society of Heroes that would definitely explain why the Lodge is having trouble :/

      • TuuronTour

        That seems plausible, but I suspect it’s more complicated than that given the storylines so far.

        • Brock Heasley
          Brock Heasley

          This discussion fascinates me because it’s based on so little evidence, yet you’re all also striking close to something that will be addressed later in this chapter.

  2. Scott

    I’m seriously not crazy about the alternative dimension stuff. I know mainstream comics do it all the time but it doesn’t make it good. The fact that it’s playing a major role in the SF saga doesn’t sit well with me.

    • devilflamejr

      I’d say there is a difference between making the alternate world story multiple times and in different storyarcs with different universes all linked to “our universe”, as they do in mainstream comics, and then making it an integral part of, as you put it, “a saga”, that is a single narrative. but that might just be me :)

      • Brock Heasley
        Brock Heasley

        I like to think that would make a difference as well. This isn’t going to be Final Crisis on 52 Parallel Earths During Zero Hour, I can tell you that much.

    • Brock Heasley
      Brock Heasley

      Scott, I always appreciate your (occasionally) dissenting voice. Like the One Year Later jump, I knew I was taking a calculated risk with this alternate dimension stuff. You’re right–this isn’t just a detour. It has close ties to the story I’m telling and what I feel are the major themes. Will that redeem this direction for you or just make it worse? No idea. But, like I said, I appreciate that you make your feelings known.

      What is it about alternate dimension storylines you tend not to like?

      • Scott

        @Brock: While alternative dimension storylines can be interesting, I find that it leads to lazy storytelling when there’s actually applied beyond a one-shot. It’s the same as time travel for me — I have rarely ever enjoyed any story with time travel. (Do not even mention Dr. Who to me). Now there have been some interesting applications of ‘multiple dimensions’ in fiction — there’s one about an Anti-Mary-Sue bureau — but that’s because the “dimensional jumps” (entering works of fan fiction) are and integral element of the story itself.

        The biggest problem with alternative dimensions is that they basically open up a world of cop-outs allowing the replacement of dead characters with so-similar-it-doesn’t-matter characters from alternative dimensions, big bads from out of left field, technology exploits, shipping of all sorts, so on and so forth. It’s just as bad as villains with endless clones (robot or otherwise) who basically let the writers cheat their way into setting up whatever they feel like.

        Like any trope, there’s a way to do it and a way not to. When tropes are incorporated as a part of the story core mechanics it works. When it’s introduced past a certain point, it’s lazy.

        Here’s the comparison: Both One Year Later and Alternative Dimensions are essentially playing with the same concept of taking familiar characters and suddenly presenting alternative interpretations than what we knew of before. The difference is that One Year Later has new interpretations because of circumstances we never got to see, but it still has to follow within the established story parameters. Alternative Dimensions are the same thing, EXCEPT the writer is also free to bring back dead characters and basically ignore everything established previously.

        A time skip requires work because it still has to match up with history, alternative dimensions don’t, but both achieve the same basic end of fresh versions of familiar faces… except alternative dimensions can be much lazier with it because the alternative world is a throw-away.

        And that’s why I tend to dislike alternative dimensions.

        • Brock Heasley
          Brock Heasley

          Well, it’s clear to me that what appeals most to us about sci-fi and adventure stories differs greatly, but at the same time I find little to argue with you here. Your reasons are sound and make sense to me.

          I don’t mind a throwaway concept if it’s used well (which might sound like a contradiction, but in this case I’m defining ‘throwaway’ as something that comes and goes quickly), but you’re right–too often alternate universes are ill-conceived and lazy.

          I hope to avoid that here. The exact nature of this alternate reality and how it compares with the one we’re all familiar with and been following for all these years WILL be detailed–and in this chapter. I’ll be most interested in your reaction to it all once you’ve read it. After having read what you wrote above, I think there’s an outside chance I’m going to dodge your objections, but I really don’t know.

  3. Marcus

    Good gravy this is going to be some fight, but what’s this about a dimensional frequency ?

    Is it a bad thing ? :(

    And why does that term sound so familiar ?

    Also I’m a great fan of John Bryne’s Fantastic Four run that had She -hulk in it. :)

    • Brock Heasley
      Brock Heasley

      LOVE Byrne’s Fantastic Four, but honestly She-Hulk is where it falls off a bit for me. I love what he did with Galactus the Doom the most. Still my favorite version of Doom.

  4. DadaHyena

    Go, Lodge of Doom!

  5. Greg Bulmash

    When’s the special announcement?

    • Brock Heasley
      Brock Heasley

      As soon as it’s ready. It’s getting close, but I want to make sure all the ducks are in a row before I let it out. I doubt you’ll have to wait more than a couple or three weeks.

  6. Si Civa
    Si Civa

    I don’t personally read that much superhero comics and I’m not familiar how alternative universes tend to work or not work at all.

    (Here in Finland superheroes aren’t as big deal as in the states I think but then again everybody has their own tastes. My own tastes include Neil Gaiman’s Sandman, Hugo Pratt’s comics, Alan Moore of course and some Donald Duck artists. Donald Duck is pretty big deal in Finland and for majority it’s the first comic they read, which means childhood times and nostalgia and some pretty damn good stories. So it’s quite funny that I read Super Fogeys. Oh well, good work is good work, no matter what genre it is.)

    So I don’t have clue how things will go. No bad memories, yet anyway. ;)

    • Brock Heasley
      Brock Heasley

      You’re from Finland! That’s awesome. I know almost nothing about Finland (I saw documentary on the education system not too long ago–looks fantastic), so your taste in comics fascinates me. Donald Duck. Who knew?

      Given your background, I have no idea how you found your way into SF, but I’m sure glad you did.

      • Cyrian

        Fun fact: Donald Duck was censored in Sweden for a long time because that moraly corosive duck wears no pants!

  7. Andrew

    For some reason I’m distracted from my normal crazy speculation by Raptor X II. His physiology is considerably reptilian as opposed to his predecessor. For some reason my brain keeps trying to come up with some kind of joke about how it’s hopefully because of the mutated dinosaur DNA he may have inherited from Raptor X (we don’t even know if they’re actually related yet) and not because he looks like his mother.

    • Brock Heasley
      Brock Heasley

      I love what Marc did with Raptor XII. I think they could be related.

  8. Bathbomber

    Swifty’s legs!

  9. quarktime

    Proper dimensional frequency ftw?

    Doesn’t Thrice already have at least two agents there already? How’d he get Gina and T-Magus there, if he didn’t have the right frequency?

    • Lewis

      Because I’m almost positive that they don’t work for Thrice. Gina was shown to have trouble dealing with Swifty before so I think his arrival location was unplanned, in fact put me down for General Will being in service to the real threat.

      I’m thinking Thrice and the lodge were looking for a way to escape and the arrival of a Swifty duplicate suggested to him a chance to leave to find a world where, as he said, he could rule.

    • devilflamejr

      My guess is it’s because those two can travel by their own power, whereas if he wants a permanent connection, like a portal, He needs the same person from two different universes. That that person is swifty MIGHT be a coincidence

  10. Drew

    i’m going out on a limb here…and i’m hoping i’m CLOSE. BEFORE the last chapter was over we saw money man a few times…ONLY the money man had something strange about him which was pointed out. He had 5 fingers where as everyone else in the NORMAL SF universe had 4. Looking at the hands of the characters i’m seeing 5 fingers. COULD this be the same universe as the money man from the last chapter??

    • Brock Heasley
      Brock Heasley

      It is entirely possible!

      You WILL find out, how about that?

  11. artisan54

    No one is commenting on the flying baddie that conveniently has his face covered, so I will. It appears that he had a star on his chest and head. Could it be in this version star maiden is star man? or could be Jerry (not sure how he has powers) or Dr. rocket, because the rabbit is present.

    It looks as if the older CS now called “General (higher rank than captain) Will” has no powers.

    I’m very interested how this will turn out.

    • Lewis

      I forget his name right now but that’s the alternate universe version of Star Maiden’s old mentor, the one she killed when he joined forces with her father to brainwash her.

      • Brock Heasley
        Brock Heasley

        Lewis is correct. See Star Maiden’s flashback in Chapter 9.

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